Fanhistory Outs Fans Personal Information

[skinscript]

FOr those folks who don't know, FanHistory is a wiki that contains lots of information about various fandoms and the people active in them. It has lists of fanfiction writers, description of fandoms, cross referenced information, etc. Much of it has been generated through simple bot actions (ie - running through all of the information on fanfiction.net to generate Biography, story, fandom, etc information for a writer. It has also been generated through people searching places like livejournal and related sites, doing in effect investigative work to link different usernames together into a single entitity (like, for example, Infie=infiticus=skinscript). Overall, a good thought that would actually be nice for folks to build self esteem and promote fandom.

But they went too far.

Several people have been listed with their *real life names* on the site, as well as real life contact information. I surfed it briefly - the links between my online personas haven't been made as yet, but following a couple of links led me to at least two author posts with real life information on them. For a while, the site was refusing to remove this information, and in at least one case, actually compounded the issue by posting a writer's private information onto an LJ community as well. (see references) Right this moment, the site has been locked down and the adminstrator "is working to delete all of the people" who have demanded it. But it took several days to get there. I haven't gone back to actually look at the timeline, but the history here of refusing to remove private information is unforgiveable, whether it was ultimately addressed or not. The fact that ultimately the site is intended for moneymaking makes it all worse.

It got me thinking.

What privacy are we ultimately entitled to? In my own personal case, I have always been a proponent of never being ashamed of any part of my life, but that doesn't necessarily extend to wanting people in my day to day life to be reading explicit sex I've written. I know this was exactly the kind of thing that has led others to leave fandom behind entirely. I'm wondering if they aren't right.

The thing that bothers me even more is the argument that was made - that if someone has revealed their true life name at some point during their fandom, that makes it OK to post it publicly for the rest of the world to see.

Fact is, there are tens of people who know who I really am, thanks to Nunswithpens, conventions, and chatting etc. I'm not hard to find for someone who tries hard enough. BUT I EXPECT TO BE ASKED. There is a process of trust building online that over time brings me to tell someone my name or my address. The simple fact of owning an internet-capable device does not give someone that trust, and I am totally offended that there is anyone out there who equates the years of time I've put into *knowing my flist* with being available to anyone.

That the site owner refused to take down someone's private information when asked is inexcusable. That she seems to feel (heresay) that all of this behaviour is acceptable in the face of getting publicity is even worse.

The more I think about it the angrier I get.

Thoughts welcome.

Some references:
http://dejana.livejournal.com/152580.html
http://ithiliana.livejournal.com/922604.html

Both of these posts have additional resources listed.

ETA: FanHistory posts apology and describes actions to address issue. Text can be found HERE. Thanks to slwatson for the update, and to nestra for posting the text.

Comments

[danniisupernova.livejournal.com]

I'm on there. I mean, no personal stuff and a lot left out, but I'm there.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Pretty much everyone from ff.net is. I don't actually mind the site. I mind that people's personal information was/is being made publicly available without their knowledge or permission, that the site owner was refusing to remove that personal information, and that the issue was envisioned as allowable under the "any publicity is good publicity" argument.

[fergus80.livejournal.com]

First, thank you for telling me about it. At least they only have my DOOL, DA, and Smallville stuff from just FanFic.net. But that did scare me for a minute.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

My impression is they've been concentrating on filling out specific fandoms at a time. I think they haven't gotten too far into Supernatural or Dark Angel yet, or there would be a heck of a lot more information there about both of us.

Do you think we should have to monitor the site to ensure our privacy is maintained? Thoughts welcome.

[fergus80.livejournal.com]

No, I do not think we should have to monitor the site to ensure our privacy is mantained. I mean, I can see that maybe a site where they list works of fiction by screen name. But not to link the screen name, and deffinitly not to put our real names with it.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

me either, but I can see how that is what it is going to turn into. How else will I (or anyone else) know when my name gets added to the wiki?

I'm interested in the ethics of this.

[fergus80.livejournal.com]

I guess they see it as trying to be a library of fan fiction. But a lot of us do this for fun and not to go into our personal life.

I don't really think there is any ethics in this. And to be truth, what we are writing. We really have no creidit to. And could almost be considered illegal. It's hard to say when the law I don't think would really be on either side.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Sure... but this has nothing at all to do with the legality or not of writing in someone else's universe - I can't even see how it would be related peripherally. o_O And, to be a little facetious (cause you know that's how I roll) I've never noticed that ethics and the law had much more than a passing aquaintence with each other, except idealogically. *laughs*

What do you think - by being "online personalities" are we in some way giving up our right to keep our real life identities private? I'm truly interested in this topic (not just for rant bait).

[fergus80.livejournal.com]

Sorry, just the law degree in me speaking there. ;)

But morally/ethically. We should be able to keep real life apart from online life if we so choose. I don't really see that much harm in putting a list of stories together by a screen name. But to actually link the person's real name to that... that is getting very carried away. And then where do you draw the line. It is a very slippery slope there. How much is okay and how much is too much?

because it is always open season on BNFs

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

I think what boggled me was when the owners of the FanHistory posted that if anyone deemed that you were a Big Named Fan - you would not have the right to have your real name or any other personal details removed from their site. So not only are they saying: you have to opt out, monitor our site to make certain we don't print your social security number, your home address and your underwear size, but if someone out there labels you a BNF - forget about us doing anything to help you.

Re: because it is always open season on BNFs

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

I know! How insane is that! (Thanks by the way for letting me know what BNF stood for). I (and fergus80) could both be considered BNF within Dark Angel, and I just don't think being active enough for people to have heard of you justifies their response.
I know it's been taken back and apologies made, yadda yadda... but I just don't think that it's the sort of thing you can take back by simply apologizing. I think it says something about them that they felt it was a valid argument to start with.

Re: because it is always open season on BNFs

[fergus80.livejournal.com]

Yeah... that is a big problem. They have no right to do that. If someone wants out, they can't not take it off. But they shouldn't be putting that much stuff up there anyways.

Re: because it is always open season on BNFs

[spirit-dog.livejournal.com]

The issue with monitoring the site to opt-out is that due to the way the ads are on the site, any page hits to it generate revenue. Thing about this, there is no way to get yourself off of there without giving the site owner money.

More then one person has been outed on there too, something like at least four on last count. The apology sounds more like "sorry for getting cough to me".

Ethically, I find the whole thing abhorrent. One just does not put up personal information about people without their prior consent, preferably written.

Post of information from the fanfiction.net bot might actually go close to violating privacy laws since the users of ff.net agreed to that site's privacy policy and TOS, on to the wiki's.

A bit of advice, avoid that site unless you want to line its owner's pockets.

[ashiva.livejournal.com]

Luckily I haven't ever written any fan fiction at FF.net (or anywhere), so only Ashiva in FH is someone else using same pseudonym. :\

[ashiva.livejournal.com]

Here via me metafandom

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear it. But you know, I was thinking about this last night - it's a pretty straightforward step to add well known reviewers / community active (but not writer) members as well. If it were my site, I'd probably go there next.

It makes me wonder how the fandom world would react to that - would it be considered worse than revealing personal info about the writers, or just as bad? (I really really hope we don't find out)

Thanks for replying!

[ashiva.livejournal.com]

I know I would be pretty annoyed if my whole fannish history was there - you know all the different pseudonyms I have used during the years and all connected to my my full real name. Then again as I never was a BNF, so I can't really see anyone caring to diggit all that up.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

And now that you know what could happen - would you ever want to be a BNF in the future?

I'm reconsidering fandom altogether (though this is only one of many reasons for that)

[ashiva.livejournal.com]

would you ever want to be a BNF in the future?
Nope, but then again I have never wanted to be one as every BNF at some point will get on someone's nerves and that someone will dig up some shit or cause some drama about BNF with or without fanhistory. Truth is that fandom wank (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/) won't ever die and that there are always some shitheads in fandom who just love trying to out other fans or cause drama, though Of course I would prefer that to be usually single person effort instead orchestrated co-effort in style of fanhistory.

[skinscript.livejournal.com]

*laughing*

me too! of course, I somehow managed to end up administrating NWP for four years regardless (and I am still not 100% sure how that happened....)

[melodyclark.livejournal.com]

I write explicit fan fic under my own name and have for twenty years. I don't have a problem with people knowing who I am and I am up at fanhistory. That said, if you want to stay covert, you should be allowed to without having to beg for it.

[skinscript.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I don't necessarily care about being "outed" myself - but there are people out there in completely different circumstances, and those people should be permitted their privacy.

[dejana.livejournal.com]

You need an L on the end of ithiliana's link, there.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Fixed.

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Hi there! I hope you don't mind me leaving you a message here ... someone recc'd your Dark Angel fic to me and I'm really jonesin' to read the NC-17 version of "Equal Opportunity" that you reference on ff.net, but I'm unable to find it at the NWP board. Do you, perhaps, have a link you can give me?

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Yay!!! Thank you so much!! The link to the summaries thread didn't come through, though. Would you mind re-sending it?

*skips off to read porn now*

:-)

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Hey there

You can find E-O at NWP HERE.

All of my rated Dark Angel stuff can be found through NWP off my Summary Page.

I'm in the process of setting up a fic archive for all of my stuff regardless of fandom. I'll be linking it here once it is done.

Cheers, and thanks for asking!

[twasadark.livejournal.com]

Awesome!! Thank you so much!

Via metafandom...

[sl_walker]

Her 'Apology' was damned amusing too. You can find the full text of it here: http://nestra.livejournal.com/269268.html

Re: Via metafandom...

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much for the link!

In reading her apology - well, it's good that she's acknowledging that she was wrong. I do get the marketing spin there of course, but ultimately - if the result is that people's privacy is in fact respected, then I guess the end is achieved.

I still think this is going to keep me thinking for a long while.

Cheers
Infie

[arhh.livejournal.com]

I follow a simple golden rule....never write anything I wouldn't care if the whole world saw and knew that I was the writer.

As far as people 'outing' others. It just goes to show what kind of scum they are, but does anyone really believe there is true privacy in today's world? There isn't.

With the right tools and know how anyone can find out who anyone is. Scary? Yes, but there is nothing one can do about it.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Well, I suppose one could go completely 'off the grid'. Not my first choice, to be honest.

The part that disturbs me isn't so much that someone could determine my real life information if they tried hard enough - it's that there are people out there who think that *doing* that isn't an invasion of privacy, to the extent that they refused to UNdo it. I know some folks think that ethics plays no part in this (which I totally disagree with :) ) but ... I just don't get how posting people's real life information without their knowledge or permission is in any way acceptable. If someone wants to know who I am, they should have to either put in the work, or take the *easy* route and ask.

[(Anonymous)]

Hrmn... I'm not actually listed on the site as far as I can tell, however, one of the fanfic archives I've contributed to in the looooooooong and distant past is. Checking that fanfic archive (a collection of posts that were categorised from the originating newsgroup -- yes, I said *newsgroup*) I actually managed to find my contributions preserved for posterity. I guess this means that FanHistory will eventually get to cataloguing it as well.

Quickly checking my stories on the site, I didn't manage to find any mention of my actual name, though I did leave an e-mail address (mental note -- if I ever get a time machine I will hit my 1990's self on the head for being stupid). Fortunately the mail server with the account didn't list my actual name either and just had a pseudonym listed. *phew* I suppose if an adversary were
really motivated, they could attach the address to some billing records lost on some corporate datastore somewhere. Then again, the only adversary interested would probably be the production companies behind the TV series featured in the fanfics.

So, in the end, the situation is the same as before, and I just killed an hour with frantic web searches and a rifling of my own files. As far as I can tell, my anonymity is still intact. Still, it was a good exercise and lesson about putting things in the public domain.

I wonder if this is how superheroes feel?

Ash.

[infiticus.livejournal.com]

Ah, well - you have different reasons than most to want to forget your fanfic past. :)

I think you're safe. But yes - disturbing for folks who may have left certain parts of their lives behind them.

Fanhistory privacy policy

[likos64.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I know I am late, but only when reading your article did I realize that I might have an article on Fanhistory and low and behold I did. I would not have searched the site if you hadn't informed us of the bots at fanfiction.net and livejournal. Thank you most sincerely.